{"id":50448,"date":"2026-06-06T08:43:00","date_gmt":"2026-06-06T06:43:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/magictowns.it\/?post_type=podcast&p=50448"},"modified":"2026-06-06T07:47:05","modified_gmt":"2026-06-06T05:47:05","slug":"180-empty-houses-one-american-familys-mission-in-abruzzo","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/magictowns.it\/it\/podcast\/180-empty-houses-one-american-familys-mission-in-abruzzo\/","title":{"rendered":"180 Empty Houses: One American Family’s Mission in Abruzzo"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

Luca:<\/strong> Happy Saturday, everyone. Welcome back to the Magic Towns Italy Podcast. This week we have a special interview with a man who, with his family, decided to uproot his existence and move to one of the less known parts of Italy, a remote corner of Abruzzo, where almost single-handedly he’s trying to revive the local community.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

He’s telling us all about his adventures in terms of integration, how his family’s doing with school and work, also how he himself finds it is like to work with Italians on a day-to-day basis. Enjoy listening to the interview with Joe Reagan.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> We moved abroad in 2016. We initially moved to Ireland with only two kids, [00:01:00] and then we had two kids born in Ireland, and we lived there for about almost eight years. But I don’t know if you’re familiar with the situation in Ireland, but it’s a bit of a housing crisis going on, like, the cost of housing keeps getting more expensive, rents, everything like that. The young people are still leaving because it’s difficult for them to get up on the ladder.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And for us, it was like, it always felt like the goalposts were moving in terms of trying to buy a house. You know, okay, they changed the rules again. We had to start over again. So we just sort of resigned ourselves to renting. But during COVID, we saw one of the one-euro house marketing schemes kind of and we’re like, “Oh, let’s look at that.” And we were like, “Okay, that’s a bit too much work for us. We want something that’s move-in ready.” And that’s when we started looking at different places for houses, and we looked particularly in Abruzzo because that’s where my wife’s family’s from. We still have cousins that live out, outside of Pescara<\/a>. We found the house purchased it in 2023, and we moved in, what, like September of 2023? So we’ve been here almost three years.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So we found our town, and, you know, started to learn about our town and the history, and my kids are [00:02:00] obviously speaking Italian now.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And like today we just had a Transumanza. You know the Transumanza? So they had a procession and The kids were dressed up as shepherds and they performed, they did, like, songs and they read some poetry and read about, like, what the Transumanza’s about. But it’s just kinda telling the life of how people used to live in Abruzzo. So that was, like, a great experience. But you’re learning about how things have changed here, and you can see it with the town is shrinking ’cause there was just a report that was put out by the the Diocese of Trivento. So we’re kind of together with, like, the Molise region that’s really close to us, ’cause we’re right in the valley on the Trigno River. So all these places are facing, like, a 50% population decline in the last 35 years. So the, the diocese is like, this is like a cry for help from, by them. They’re, ’cause they’re the ones administrating to the people and dealing with all the problems. ‘Cause they’re saying how some services have disappeared over the years, but the church has always been there, and they’re hearing from the people and they’re dealing with all the issues. And so they’re just trying to be the [00:03:00] voice of, like, what’s actually happening in our region.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> I actually find your history resonates a lot with mine because we’ve been in a lot of the same countries. My kids are American, Irish, Italian, so \u2026 and I have four of them, so I am curious how you immigrated to Italy. I know you were in Ireland for a long time. Did you move to Italy as a permanent resident by porting over your residency?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> No. My wife has Italian passport, so do my kids, so they’re dual citizens. I was a permanent resident of Ireland, and that actually helped me ’cause I had my permanent residency when I transferred to do the paperwork for my carta di soggiorno. They’re like, “Oh, you have\u2026 You’re already kind of an approved long-term EU resident.”<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So I’m on the system, so to speak, right? Whereas I wasn’t new to coming to Europe. So that helped me. But since my wife had the Italian passport, even with my kids being born in Ireland, we just stuck with the Italian passport ’cause it was easier, ’cause we have the American passport and the Italian one, so we just got them that. It just was instant. We just went to the the embassy in Dublin and they got it. We just had the paperwork. So that’s how we were always able to stay, and we used that. My wife obtained [00:04:00] Italian citizenship from her grandfather, so yeah<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> The reason why I’m asking is that you know, it’s interesting what you said about depopulation and the fact that towns are emptying out. We actually spend a lot of time doing research on that. And one of the things we’ve been doing was a survey of expats, and we found that especially among Americans, interestingly, the biggest barriers are the lack of English in the public administration, the driver’s license, you know, changeover requirement, the fact that you have to-<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> Yes<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> I mean, I know 70-year-old ladies that have to do the driver’s test again in Italian. And of course, you know, the whole visa kind of quota system, that makes it very complicated. So I’m not surprised to know that you found things easier as a spouse of a EU citizen and of course as a permanent resident. So I always ask this question.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> Yeah, like the driver’s license, I had to get it. It’s the same rule in Ireland, ’cause it’s all EU countries. [00:05:00] If after a year of residency you have to transfer your license to an Irish driver’s license. So I went through the tests and all that in Ireland. It was just easier ’cause it was in English, you know? So that’s, I guess, not to say it’s a hack to get through the system, because you still have to be there and do it. It’s just made it easier for me ’cause I’ve already been here for a while.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> Of course. And did you guys, discuss while I wasn’t there why specifically you chose Abruzzo and why that you know, corner of the woods in Abruzzo?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> My wife’s family’s from Abruzzo. They live in a small town outside of Pescara, we’re about an hour and 20 minutes away. So we went for a place that we liked, and my wife did an ample amount of research as well in this town. She was like, “Okay, it’s got a school. We have medical center, we have a bank,” and all those things you need in a town, because sometimes, like a town near me that’s got 100 people- Doesn’t have anything.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

You know, they come to my town. It’s, yeah It’s dead. It’s dead. Yeah. And, um, everybody here says that too about the town. They’re like, “Oof.” You know, they do the sign of the cross when they refer to it. Um, but it’s almost li- you know, these, this town still has a lot. It still has a lot [00:06:00] of life left. You know, when we had just a little festa last night for the, um, the Festa della Repubblica in our piazza. We had food trucks and music, and it was full of people, and it was people from all around the other towns that they were in our town for the party, which was nice. So it had a lot of those amenities. It checked the boxes, and then also we did a bit of, like, social media stalking. You know, you’re looking on Instagram.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Are people posting here? Are things happening, you know? Because some towns, you know how it is, I suppose there’s nothing going on. You don’t see anything on social media. Maybe the businesses aren’t updated on Google. So you do a little cyberstalking, and you find out if they have what they say they have or, you know, what’s on paper.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> Um, how do you find the transition from, um\u2026 So you went through three steps, right? I know you’ve also been to some other countries, like you’ve been to South Africa, but how did you-<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> That was me and my youth. That was no kids. That was me doing it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> All right. All right.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> Free agent. Free agent in South Africa. Free, free<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> agent. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> But how did you find the transition US\u2026 I [00:07:00] believe you lived in Brooklyn, right, as well?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> Yeah. That was- Yeah \u2026 well, I could go a little bit side story with my time in South Africa and my time in Brooklyn. I actually, do you know the, you know the Capuchin Franciscans?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Yeah, and so I actually joined. I did volunteer work with them in South Africa. There was a peace program started by an Irish friar, um, and I worked with that in Pretoria. And then when I went back to the States, I got a job, but then I still, I discerned with them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I was doing, like, retreat weekends and stuff with the, with the guys from that group, and joined them temporarily. I joined them for about a year, and this, and that’s when I was living in Brooklyn. I was living in a friary in Brooklyn. I wasn’t with\u2026 I was in, like, in a hipster place. It was, like, in a rough area, but it was a friary, and I worked at a soup kitchen, and there was six or seven other guys in my\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n

It’s called a postulancy group. It’s your first year before you put on the robe. You can still wear civilian clothes. Uh-huh. So I did that, and eventually I was like, I, you know, you’re doing a year of prayer and study, and I was working in a soup kitchen, and, um, eventually it became clear to me that it wasn’t for me, that I wanted a [00:08:00] family. So I said goodbye and left. But there’s no problem. You just tell them, “I’m, I’m gonna leave,” and they’re like, “Okay.” And my brother always tells a story that when he come, he c- uh, he came to get me, my brother’s a police officer in my hometown, he said how our place was like, you know, like a fortress because it’s in a rough area.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

There’s, you know, barbed wire around it, and it’s a little friary, and you had to go in through a gate. And he’s like, “I felt, you, you I was, you, you were, like, in prison and I was springing you out of prison,” is what he said. Wh-<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> So how did, how did the jump to Europe happen?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> So when my wife and I first got together, we were always talking about, you know, did we wanna stay forever in the US. We’re interested in travel. We honeymooned in Ireland and Scotland, and she knew that I traveled a lot before we got married, and we’re always interested in like a life outside the US. I remember there was a moment we’re sitting having, uh, l- dinner with my oldest son, was only like an infant ’cause I remember he was still in a car seat, like sitting at the table. And it was one of the, the bigger shootings happened in the US. It was the Sandy Hook, which was in Connecticut. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that one said to us, like, if that happened and then [00:09:00] like nothing really changed, like they’re still happening and there’s still been horrific ones since, we’re kinda like, do we really wanna deal with that? You know, you hear about active shooter drills. Like I used to just have fire drills. You know, oh, if there’s a fire, this is what you do. Now they do fire drills and shooter drills. Like, and my kids have thankfully never experienced that, and that was, for us, we just like, do we want a future for our children in that environment, you know? So that’s, that was one of the things, and we wanted a different life.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Anna:<\/strong> And how long after did you move to Ireland ?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> Let me think. Uh, it’s 10 years now. We’ve been married, coming up on 15 years. So my oldest just turned four. My second son was about a year and a half. So it’s about five years, five and a half years into our marriage, so it wasn’t\u2026 We’re still fairly young and into it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And then my wife was pregnant with our third son. She had him a few months after we got to Ireland, and then my daughter was born like two years later. So, yeah, we’ve spent more time abroad now than we have as opposed together in the United States. Even my kids, you know, like my oldest still remembers some things, but for now it’s like [00:10:00] my second oldest, he doesn’t remember anything from the States.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> That’s just incredible. You know, you mentioned what happened with Sandy Hook. I was in the US at the time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> And about a year later- Mm \u2026 they shot one of my neighbors in front of my doorstep in Brooklyn. And that to us was an eye-opening moment. For a European, that kind of stuff is just unthinkable. I just never had got my head around to someone being shot around my door. And that was the moment- Yeah \u2026 that we said, uh, “Hell no.” So-<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> Yeah \u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> Back we go. Back we go.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> It’s eye-opening I assume for you when you have that because I suppose when you’re growing up into it, like my family is like my\u2026 Both my grandfathers were police officers, my uncle, my cousin, my brother. So you kind of grow up, not to say around a certain amount of violence, but you’re used to like them dealing with criminals, criminality and those things that happen. But you hear it’s getting worse and worse in terms of like the stories they’re telling, you know? And that’s something too eventually you’re like, [00:11:00] when you move out of it and you go, “Well, this is actually not normal.”<\/p>\n\n\n\n

You know, in Europe or Ireland, like I never barely saw the police in Ireland, you know? When they needed to be there, they were there, but compared to America, like you could go around every corner and you see a cop, you know? It’s such a different feeling.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> And the Garda<\/a> are very laid back. I mean, even- Oh, yeah \u2026 as your dear Maurice Man go, it’s like, yeah, the, the Garda- Yeah \u2026 more like people you find in the pub that are on the street.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> Yeah. It’s the, um, I like to say it’s the sure, sure you’ll be grand attitude, you know? Like I had a great moment in, uh\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So during COVID, um, they had like lockdowns in Ireland, and I was like a sales manager. I still had to go out to like the supermarkets, like, you know, Dunnes Stores and Tesco. Yeah, yeah. So I’d go out there, and I actually had a note from my company that I was like working, ’cause we’re essential workers ’cause we’re stocking supermarket shelves, you know?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And I remember I was near, um, do you know Tallaght? You’re outside of Dublin. It’s a bit of a more working class neighborhood. It’s, so like they had the, the qu- where you’re supposed to go, and this Garda was like shouting at this lady. He’s like, “You’re going too far. You’ve, you’re only supposed to go five kilometers from your house.”[00:12:00]\n\n\n\n

And he’s basically telling her, “F off back home.” And he gets to me, he’s like, “Please tell me you’re like, you have a good excuse.” Yeah. And I was like, “I work for Coke.” He’s like, “Oh, Jesus.” He’s like, “You got a drink back there for me?” You know? Like he was just like- \u2026 just going from like being really serious to just like, I’ll just tell\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n

You know, have a laugh and just taking the tension out. I was like, “Sorry, I’ll\u2026” I was like, “I only have Coke and water, you know? I can’t help you out with\u2026 I’ll, I’m sure you need a beer or something, but I can’t help you, you know?”<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> It’s never very far in Ireland anyway.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> Yeah, yeah. So it’s that attitude I think is great though. And I think for us, the Irish attitude of it’s, but it’s so much more relaxed than it is in America, and I think that prepared us well for the transition to Italy on how the culture works and how things work here.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> How have you found that? I mean, did you speak Italian at the time of the move? Or how- Nope \u2026 prepared were you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> Our kids had a tutor, for about three years But for us, we kinda knew the basics, and thankfully we did have an English speaker here who was able to help us, like, navigate a lot of the bureaucracy. So, she’s from here, but she studied in [00:13:00] England and she’s fluent English speaker, and since they wanted us to stay here. They’re like, “You have four kids. That’d be amazing if you could come and move to our town. We need kids. It’ll help our school.” And she literally went with us to get the enrollment for the kids, and we signed it up and she translated for us, and that was, like, our first few weeks. But having somebody like that on your side is definitely beneficial\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> Also, everything is in Italian, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, do you ever find, public workers and office workers in a town hall that speak good English?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> I only found last year, I did\u2026 you know San Carlo, Patatine?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> Yeah. Yeah I worked for them, I worked for them for the summer, and over time people would just realize with my accent that I was an English speaker. And so I found, like, four or five people who were fluent English speakers through just realizing I spoke it, and it was just funny ’cause we’d have conversations in English.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Everybody else was like, “What are you talking about?” We just\u2026 I think they enjoyed finding somebody else. Like, one of the bar owners, like, studied university in Baltimore, you know, and he just\u2026 We’d talk about baseball. Like, just random stuff like that. So random. Yeah. There’s another guy who worked at a butcher shop. His name was Gino, but he grew up in England and he had English accent, but then he was perfect [00:14:00] Italian. He’d been there for 40 years. So it’s just things like that you find over time, but it was also helpful because they were good customers and it also helped me transition well, because going from not speaking Italian that well and just getting thrown into a job where I had to do it all the time, all day, it was helpful to have a little break and sometimes, you know, let my brain rest.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> Oh, of course. So you are one of the few examples of an American, actually probably the only one I ever met, that has gone to work for an Italian company.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> Yeah. But I’ve done a few, actually. My wife used to be better than me at Italian, but my wife still works all the time, like all- remotely for a company in Ireland, and she only speaks English all day. So me out all the time speaking Italian, I went like way far ahead of her on my understanding of Italian. And now she looks to me, “What are they saying?” Whereas before I was like, “What are they saying?”<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> How are you finding working in Italy with Italians? There’s a lot of stereotypes, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, there are, there for sure. I think [00:15:00] coming back from America where it’s like, go, go, go, hustle, hustle, hustle. It’d probably blow people’s minds that, like, in the middle of the day when I was working the job last summer, you’re not delivering ’cause everybody’s closed from, like, 1:00 to, like, 4:00, right? So it’s almost sometimes if I was really busy, I’d have to just stop working for, like, three hours until everybody opened back up, and that would blow people\u2026 “Uh, why were they closed? They’re losing money.” You know, a lot of Americans have that idea, like, well, it’s just how they operate here, you know? And so you adapt to that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> Do you find that irritating, or have you come to terms with it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> I’ve just come to terms with it. Like, when you’re, in August when you’re really busy, you, like, wish some of them were open just ’cause it’d make your day so much easier. Because it’s just, it’s bananas how busy it was ’cause you have all the festivals, your Ferragosto, everybody’s on holiday.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And I was getting calls like, “Joe, I need you here. I need this. I need this.” And I’m like, “I can’t go to all these towns in one day,” ’cause one of them’s an hour away, and this one’s 20 minutes away. You gotta do what you can. So some thankfully you could call them and say, “Can I come after hours?” And they’d meet you, you know, in the middle of the day if you made an arrangement.<\/p>\n\n\n\n[00:16:00] So it was just longer days, but I mean, the way they work is it’s commission, so you got more\u2026 August was my, like, the month I got paid the most, you know? So you busted your butt, but you got paid for it, you know.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The worst part though is halfway through August my air conditioning broke in my van. So, urgh, the hottest month and I just- You, you<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> don’t walk back to the middle of<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> August. Oh, but it, it actually helped me. It’s just, it’s like the language, I got acclimated. I just drove with the windows down.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And I remember some of my customers being like, “Joe, take it easy.” Like, “Pian piano.” Take it easy, man. “Have\u2026” Yeah. “Have a drink.” Somebody was like, “Have a beer.” You know \u2026 And that’s normal too. Americans would be like, “You’re having a beer?” So things like that where you just like, you can do that, and that’s a different cultural thing versus America.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> It sounds like you really are seeing the positive of things. And, I sense a lot of appreciation for the fact that you have been able to integrate. Perhaps more than you thought you would in such a short time?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> I think so, ’cause you know, like, in Ireland there was no language barrier, but you still sometimes struggle to really make good friends. But [00:17:00] here, even with the language barrier, I still find that people are much more open. Like, I say it to my wife all the time, my social calendar has never been busier than it has in Italy, ’cause there’s always something.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Like, today when the kids had the Transumanza, um, play, that, like, the kids who are graduating elementary school, they had beers and they had prosecco. And you’re like, “Oh, you’re at a school event and there’s alcohol? And they’re giving\u2026” I was like, “I’ll have water.” And they’re like, “Joe, you’re not having prosecco?” I was like, “Not today.” You know, like,<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> but that stuff is normal here. And just, just for the people who listen to this, they don’t give the beer and the prosecco to the kids.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> Yeah. No, no, that’s for the adults. It’s for the adults.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> Just in case you misunderstand. Yeah. No, but the parents do partake.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> Yeah, yeah. But it’s just funny ’cause those sort of things here you’re just like, “That’s normal now,” right? Yeah. But if that happened in the States, you’d think, “Wow, that’s just completely weird and strange, and totally illegal or something.”<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Yeah, and back to the integration, I find that even my son had a travel soccer club. Every Sunday morning we’re playing for a town near us, and the parents would go out to get a coffee in the morning. And some of the towns I knew from [00:18:00] work, and, like, and it was kind of funny that sometimes me as, like, the American immigrant knew these towns better than some of the local Italians.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mm-hmm. ‘Cause we were in one called Casalbordino , and I was like\u2026 they’re like, “Where’s the town center?” I was like, “Come on. Come with me. I’ll show you.” You know what I mean? Like- You’re the<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> local guide.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> And they’re kind of funny. And then ironically, like, five minutes later, I ran into the guy who worked at San Carlo there, and he’s like, “Oh, Joe,” and he gave me, like, a high five.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Yeah. You know? Like, they just think I don’t know anybody, and the next thing you know I’m talking to people that I know from previously. So I think that surprises a lot of people that I know so many people, you know? So\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> I see a career as a local politician coming up for you. I was gonna ask about your mission in Italy. Yeah. You have a lot of followings. Do you feel like you have a mission?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> Well, for me, I think so. Like what I did was when we moved here, I took a step back. I’m not working like as much as I have been because my wife has a good stable paying job and she has to travel to Ireland like once a quarter. So I was like, “Okay, I can take care of the kids. I still can do a lot of different things.”<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A bit of [00:19:00] entrepreneurial things where I’m finding people help find properties, you know, and people are interested in that. And then I started pulling back layers of different things that are happening here. People come to me and it’s like, “Oh, Joe, can you do a video for my house?” They have it listed with a realtor, but it’s been for sale for five years and they haven’t heard anything from the realtor. So I’ve done some videos on TikTok and they sort of got some traction where people were coming to see the houses, and eventually one of the houses was purchased through the realtor, but they saw my video to get them there. So once they saw that that worked, people just randomly show up to my door and knock on it and say, “Hey, can you do a video of my house?” And stuff like that. So that sort of developed and then with that getting people here, you probably know it as well, a lot of the incentives are focused on retirees- you have the 7% tax. But if you look at my area, the whole area has had a 50% population decline. The three towns near us, all their schools have closed. There’s no supermarket. There’s no shop. There’s nothing, you know? So that’s the future that could happen to my town, [00:20:00] Celenza.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So I wanna just say let’s not let that happen. Some of those houses that I’m sharing, not to say I’m holding or gatekeeping that they should go to certain people, but I want them to go to families.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

You know, we’re right in nature sitting on top of a hill, and there’s great hiking trails and all these things. So that does appeal to some people. So I’m just trying to say, “Hey, if you’re looking for that, we have it, but also we have a community that needs more people with kids” you know? And I have been successful sort of. One of the guys from my town, he moved away, and my videos have helped kind of influence him to come. He’s gonna buy a house back here in town. He has two kids that are gonna enroll in school. So to me it’s like my first little win, you know?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So like I saw him yesterday because what I heard was our middle school has enough kids, but because it’s so small, they’re gonna put all together in one class. But one of my sons told me that if his son, who’s supposed to be in sixth grade enrolls now, they’ll split the classes into two, which is, I think is a better, instead of having one all the kids together. So I told him that. He got in touch with the school district, got it sorted, and that will [00:21:00] help, the school. So..<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> You saved the school in another way. You know what you’re saying really resonates. There’s a lot of these gems around Italy, and the country’s so big. People don’t realize. Because it looks so small on a map, but it’s actually enormous. It’s the size of California, but it’s very densely populated.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> So there are thousands of these towns, and there’s also a lot of towns that are past saving, but what you are focusing on is a community that by all accounts, can still be turned around, and it feels like you’ve embraced that. Um, there’s one thing I wanted to ask you last, which is a question that comes up a lot. I assume that your kids go to state school. You don’t have private schools there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> State school, yes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> Okay. So do mine. How do you find the transition was? What has been your experience with the state school system?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> It was really good from the start because when we moved, the kids weren’t fluent in Italian, so the school came up with a plan to get them the extra Italian language learning and grammar learning. And then we had a WhatsApp group [00:22:00] with the teachers, so if there’s an issue, we kind of were in good communication with them. We would meet with them probably that first year once a month and just talk about any problems that were coming up. They knew it was important that the kids caught up. They felt like they were part of the class. They now all fluently speak Italian.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Anna:<\/strong> And what do you think was like the biggest benefit for your family and your kids?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> I think for them, like, well I know one of my kids was, every day in Ireland he’d be like, “I don’t wanna go to school. I don’t wanna go to school.” We literally had to almost like drag him to school every day. First it was difficult for a few weeks and then something switched and then he was the first one ready. He had his grim, you know, ready to go and he’s like out the door, up to the bus and we’re like, “Who is this kid? This is not the kid we knew.”<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So I think it’s the socialization. They had to learn the language and they really had to like catch up and it was almost like throwing him into the deep end. So for me that’s the biggest part I’ve seen is that transition, and probably then having the language and being like, wow, I speak Italian and English and that confidence that it probably gave them. I think [00:23:00] that was probably the biggest thing that I saw as a parent.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> So what is next for you now?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> Well, I’m gonna still keep talking about getting people to my town. It’s not just get people here, it’s also keeping them. And how do you keep them is have them integrate. If I get my goal of three to five families, which is my goal, I’ll do my best to say, “Hey, if you need a hand, I’ve been there”. Since I’ve been through it, I know the bottlenecks that you’re gonna have or problems you’re gonna face.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Longer term, I think I just keep talking about Abruzzo ’cause I think it’s a great place to be and, a beautiful area. Everybody wants to go to the ones. Everybody goes to Rome and Amalfi and there’s other places you can discover, and people won’t know about it unless you talk about it. And I’m trying to then actually promote local businesses as well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

We just went to one locally on Saturday. There’s a hotel near us. They do a pasta-making course. So I’m gonna do a video and share that because people are like, “Joe, what do you do in the area? What are the things to do?” And not to say we’re trying to get overrun with tourists, we just want a bit more. It’s more focused on slow tourism. Maybe they wanna harvest olives. Maybe they wanna make pasta. I try to get them to come and experience that. [00:24:00]\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> And that’s a surprising thing about Italy, that even in smaller communities, there is a surprising amount of stuff to do, and it’s just because people don’t know it. It’s like the tree falling in the forest It still exists. There is so much, but unless you make it available for people to understand that it is there, everyone will keep going to the same places. And frankly, that’s why we started working on this because we had to..<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> Help, yeah \u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> against them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> Don’t show up in the town, like a quiet town like mine at like 3:00 in the afternoon and go, “Where is everybody?” They’re like, “Well, they’re having lunch. They’re on their break.” You know, that you hear that a lot. That sounds weird. Yeah. It’s things like that. You’re like, go in the\u2026 You see the routines that people do.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

8:00 in the morning, there’s a, we have a fruit and vegetable van that’s around. You see they go to, they go to the, the bar for a coffee. They see their friends. They, they go to the shop. Everybody has their, um, you know, daily schedule, and if you come in and not realize that it’s, it’s a totally different one how people operate, especially in the summertime, you know, you’re not gonna really have the full experience.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

You gotta come in with that open mind as well and go, “Okay, what are the locals doing? Let me, [00:25:00] let me follow that.” And then you’ll find those experiences which you mentioned. ‘Cause you go to the bar and you have a coffee, and people go, “Who are you? Where are you from?” And, and you get those, and you meet people versus showing up at like 1:00 when it’s closing and nobody’s there, you know?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> Especially as we get into the summer-<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> Yeah \u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> knowing what the daily routine of Italians is, is the difference between having a absolutely awful time, showing up at restaurants where they no longer serve food, going around to the baking hot hours of the day when everyone is in bed because, you know, they go to bed for a couple of hours.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

It’s just so hot- Yeah \u2026 they close the windows, et cetera. And then you go around and it’s like, okay, this is like a ghost town. There’s tumbleweeds going around. No, it, no, it, it isn’t. No. Just people have this as a downtime because outside you have to be crazy to go, right? Yeah. So once you learn that, everything makes a lot more sense.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> Yeah. It’s like even now you’re still like, well, you know, on the weekend we, we go out on the, for like a night on a Sunday, and some people will hang around a certain point, like a after 7:30, 8:00, you’ll start seeing people just disappearing [00:26:00] ’cause they’re going home for dinner. But they could be back at 9:30.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

You’ll just, you get that window where you’re like, oh, there’s nobody around, and just those small observations will take you a long way and, and just sometimes it’s like take the hint. Everybody else is leaving. You leave, and you come back. You know? Those things, again, it’s just awareness of what, what people are doing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> That’s right. Follow the locals.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Anna:<\/strong> Just a final question which is like what kind of people you think would love moving there, and who should probably think twice before making the move?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> I suppose people who you gotta be a bit, I suppose industrious and like, adventuresome because I think if you’re expecting things to like drop in your lap, it’s not gonna happen. You gotta go out there and find stuff. You know what I mean? Like I, as I said, with like my job last summer, I met so many different people from all around and, you know, you can s- and see the same thing happening in our town and all these other towns that I went to, with a few exceptions. But like you gotta be able to get out there, if you’re expecting people to speak English, they’re not going to, so you gotta adapt and and [00:27:00] learn Italian and put yourself in the situation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

That is uncomfortable. You have to be uncomfortable, honestly, because that’s one of the things I kinda reminded myself when I first got here. I was like, “You’ve been here before. You feel nervous, you feel a bit scared, but you’re scared because you care, ’cause you don’t wanna\u2026” You’re, you’re like, “Oh, I’m gonna embarrass myself by saying it wrong.”<\/p>\n\n\n\n

That’s okay. Like that’s how we learn. You just forget, I think, when you’re kids, you don’t, you don’t have that, I suppose, shame that you do as an adult, like that you make mistakes and you’re like, “Oh, I’m an idiot.” You know? That’s how we learn. You gotta make the mistakes and say the verb in the wrong tense or say it masculine instead of feminine. You learn that. You learn those things over time. You just gotta do it and experience it, and you don’t do that by, I suppose, hiding away.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

You gotta get out there and, especially with Italians, it’s a very warm culture, an open culture I think. You just gotta get out there and they’re just, “Where are you from? Oh, cool.” Like, “It’s glad you chose here.” And I always find this really funny in this area, when you go to another town, and they go, “Where do you live?” “Oh, I live here.” And they’re like, “Why didn’t you choose our town?” And they’re so, like, fiercely proud of their town. You know what I mean? Like,<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> and- You<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> got in [00:28:00] trouble \u2026 yeah, like, “Well, sorry, I didn’t know about you, you know, before now.” Like, that sort of thing. It just always makes me chuckle. And they mean it in a nice way. Like, I don’t think they’re like, “You should just uproot yourself and move to their town,” but, like, they mean it in a way that, like, their town is great, too. And they mean that in the nicest way, and they’re very proud of their, where they’re from. And they like it when people integrate and get out there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> People truly, truly appreciate that. It’s a little bit like in Greece and other countries, uh, where you speaking the language or just a little bit is seen as an amazing feat, which you’re going to be applauded for, so people should not be shy at all about trying.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> But then you, you get the other layer of Italy where they start going, “Oh, you get the dialect, though.” You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, everybody’s got their dialect. You think, “Oh, I learned Italian,” and then you’re like, “What are, what are they speaking?” “Oh, no, that’s the dialect.” And you’re like, “Oh.” Don’t get me started on that. It’s f- it’s fun though. It’s a fun one to pl- like, to, to learn about as you get here, you know?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Like, for ours, instead of C, they go shi, shi. Like, you know, like, things like that. And it’s, we kinda say a few of them just as a joke, but that’s another [00:29:00] layer. As you expose yourself to it, you’re going, “Whoa, what are they speaking? That sounds Italian, but it’s not,” you know? And it’s, it’s a funny one, ’cause you, you don’t realize that till you’re here, how that was, or how that is in certain areas.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> And you’re going to realize that a lot when, with your new Italian, which is very laden with local influences, you go to other parts of Italy, and they’re like, “I know exactly where you lived for the past five years. I can tell exactly where your accent is.”<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> An Italian friend of mine told my kids they have good, nice Abruzzo accents, you know? I was like, “I don’t have that level of fluency to detect that yet,” you know?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> But you will.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> Yeah. And I just wanna say before, ’cause I know I’m looking for families, and I feel like there’s a certain set of the population, retirees, I’m not trying to say you guys aren’t welcome. ‘Cause it seems like a lot of people are like, “Oh, I wanna go to your town, but, you know, it doesn’t seem like you’re looking for me.”<\/p>\n\n\n\n

People need to put this in, like, the number, the figures. We have 180, like, abandoned or empty or vacant homes in my town, so if I just focus on 10 of those, it still leaves 170 other properties that are looking for love and attention. And I think people have gotta [00:30:00] realize as you, again, you pull back the layers, you realize how much we need people to be in these towns.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Luca:<\/strong> Absolutely. I don’t think it was taken, at least from my, from my perspective, it was not taken as a, “I don’t want retirees,” but it is absolutely true that the country is facing a huge demographic crisis, especially in pockets, and you only fix that by bringing in families. What is really sad is that from our perspective, what we can do is shine the spotlight on nice parts of Italy that really need love and deserve to be lived in.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

What we cannot fix is how difficult it is for non-retirees to get the ability to move to the country. You know this as a spouse- Yes \u2026 of a EU citizen, you got graced like that. But for anyone that, you know, the, an Australian couple that wakes up, a American couple that wakes up and don’t have ancestry for, to move to Italy is an absolute nightmare.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And what is really depressing is how conversely easy it is for them, the very same people, to move to [00:31:00] the Netherlands or France, for instance. Italy has made it very difficult for people to immigrate. And I do hope that at some point, collectively, we’re going to have enough of a voice to wake up the government, which is navel-gazing, as it has always been Italy independently who governs for many years, and build avenues for people to be able to move to Italy and be productive and come here with their families.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joseph:<\/strong> We’ve just got to get,<\/p>\n\r\n\t\t\t

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