Luca : How are you, Anna?

Anna : I'm good. What about you?

Luca : I am doing great. It's really good to see you for the last episode before Christmas. We're gonna take a couple of weeks of well-deserved break.

Anna : And today we're diving into one of the most interesting topics for remote workers and expats, which is Italy's new digital nomad visa.

Luca : Yes. I'm so excited about that. And I know you're excited about it too because you've been covering it assiduously for a couple of months now, haven't you?

Anna : And I'm sure lots of people are interested as well.

Luca : The Digital Nomads Visa has been in the works for a while, and finally it's live. The Italian government started talking about a couple of years ago, but as it happens in Italy, it only took off in, uh, May or June.

Can we talk a little bit about what it really takes to get [00:01:00] it?

Anna : The good thing is that it's absolutely doable. Let's break down what the visa is, uh, who it's for and what the real world requirements look like.

Luca : The digital nomad visa, like other digital nomad visas in Europe, like the Portuguese one is probably the best known one, is aimed at non- European citizens who work remotely as the, as freelancers or the business owners or the employees of foreign companies.

It is valid for one year. It is renewable and it lets you live legally in Italy while earning more money from companies and customers based abroad.

Anna : Exactly. So, there are two broad tracks. The remote worker visa, if you are employed by a company, and then digital nomad visa, if you are employed or if you're self-employed or freelance. The paperwork changes slightly depending on which route you're taking, but the general [00:02:00] principles, let's say, are the same.

Luca : Talking about what you need to qualify for the DNV, as we call it, income, you need to show earnings of at least 28,000 euro per year, which is the legal minimum.

Anna : But realistically, successful applicants tend to earn quite a bit more so based on real cases. Most approval came in the 43,000, 80,000 range.

Luca : And income alone is not enough for you to get the visa. You need to prove that you have financial stability historically.

With things like tax returns, bank statements, client contracts.

Anna : And a pro tip is to create an explanatory note in Italian. So this is like a financial cover letter.

Luca : Now, paperwork wise, as we said, you need two to five years of tax returns. Six to 12 months worth of bank statements, a lease or registered housing [00:03:00] contract. And we're gonna get back on that point because it's a bit of a sticky point in a second. A private health insurance policy, a degree or proof of professional experience for the sector you're applying in. And, don't be discouraged sworn translations in Italian for a lot of these documents.

Anna : So you need to prove you've got a place lined up before you even apply. So, 12 month lease registered with the Agenzia delle Entrate is the safest bet.

Luca : You are an expert in this topic. You also wrote an article this week, Anna, about, how tricky it is to get these 12 month leases so listeners can go to Magic Towns directly and read it.

It is, very, very interesting. It is true that the, for this particular type of visa some consulates accept Airbnb medium term rentals. So when in doubt go for a 12 month registered [00:04:00] lease.

Anna : And people often ask like, how much is this going to cost me? So let's be honest. Mm-hmm. It's not cheap, but. It's not outrageous either.

Luca : The Visa itself only costs 116 euro, let's say 130 US dollars. But, the paperwork, that goes with it and the translations, notarizations, accommodation deposits, insurance, and lawyers fees can add up.

So figure out between 3000 to 6,000 euro between one thing and the other. And of course, if you want professional help, you should add another 1000 to 3000 euro for a consultant. All that being said we have a relationship with a consultant that works at the lower end of that, uh, range. So feel free to get in touch if you'd like an introduction.

Assuming that you got your visa, what happens after [00:05:00] you arrive? You land in Italy and uh, you must within eight working days apply for permesso di soggiorno. Your residency permit.

Anna : Which means a trip to your local questura. So they might ask for additional translations or documentation, so don't throw anything away.

Luca : No. Bring that stack of paperwork with you . You also must watch out for tax residency rules. if you become a tax resident you have to pay tax in Italy, like most countries, to be fair. The general rule is that 183 days in a calendar year will trigger tax residency.

So if you arrive in say July, you probably won't be a tax resident for that year, but from the following January, Italy will want to tax a slice of your income.

Anna : So definitely speak to a commercialista, which is a tax consultant who understands international [00:06:00] taxation. It's not always straightforward.

Luca : Yeah. Is it ever straightforward? No. I'm joking. This is one of the easier things if a professional looks after you.

Anna : Oui, c'est vrai.

Luca : We have talked to a whole bunch of, digital nomads, and in fact, we have a little interview lined up, as a segment of this podcast.

From talking to all these digital nomads Anna, what did you find the main hurdles they have faced to be so?

Anna : Language is a big one. A lot of official documents must be translated into Italian, as we said before, and communication with consulates. It's nearly always in Italian.

Luca : And what about accommodation? We touched on it briefly.

Anna : The problem is that landlords want to see your visa, but you need the lease to get the visa, so it helps to work with relocation services or Airbnb hosts to understand the process.

Luca : There is this, um, saying doing the rounds in expat circles that, Italians are legally not allowed to [00:07:00] rent to you unless you have a visa. But this is absolutely not true. You just need to explain your situation a little bit clearly to your prospective landlord or landlady. So all things considered, is it worth it?

Anna : Yeah, if you're ready to put in the work this digital nomad visa gives you a real legal foothold in Italy with a path to renewal and maybe even permanent residency later.

Luca : Yeah, and people on a digital nomad visa can bring in dependants once they move in.

So if you wanna bring in your spouse or your children, you, it will allow you to do that too. So that's a piece of good news. Just, make sure you're prepared, be patient and get comfortable with it. Italian bureaucracy, it's like a starter of the Italian bureaucracy you get after you move in.

Anna : But guys, it's absolutely worth it if your dream is to live in a small town in Umbria, Abruzzo, or you know, a beach side town in Puglia.

Luca : And you can still keep your career [00:08:00] going.

Anna : Exactement.

Luca : So it would be remiss of me to not mention at this point that if you're not sure where to settle in Italy, you can check out our Town Explorer of Magic Towns, it, which covers more than 1500 towns in Italy and has, hundreds of data points for each one of these.

No one else has anything like this. I sometimes struggle to explain to people what it is, but then when they use it, they go like, wow. So end of promotional break.

I think Anna, it would be really good and timely if we brought in a few soundbites now of the conversation we had, with one of our favorite digital nomads so far, shall we?

Anna : Absolument.

Luca : So without further ado, here are, our top 10 minutes of conversation with, Riaan Fourie, who had a lot of interesting stuff to tell us about his experience at the Digital Nomad Village in Tursi, Basilicata, a beautiful, quaint little town [00:09:00] where he found a lot more than he expected.

Luca : How long has your career as a digital nomad been?

Riaan: This is an interesting question. What do you define as a digital nomad? I started my travels in country, so in South Africa, and that was probably 2019.

The path was not as walked for the digital nomads, not that much going on . Um, so it was quite scary, but I'd say outside of South Africa, traveling different country every month, about three and a half, four years now.

Luca : Had you been to Italy before going to Tursi?

Riaan: Mm, yep. It was actually my second time in Italy

Luca : What was your experience like?

Riaan: Incredible. I mean, the first experience we were in, the northwest of Sicily, a little island called Ustica.

We started on a boat there and then traveled all the islands, the Ionian Islands. And then made our way all the way around, to Mount Etna then across to Greece. Uh, incredible experience. I really love Sicily. And it was interesting to see the contrast [00:10:00] between, let's say, Sicily and like Tursi, very different.

Luca : It wasn't really an Italian crowd, was a mostly international crowd, I imagine?

Riaan: Mostly, yeah, mostly international. Not too many Italians.

Luca : How did you feel about Sicily?

Riaan: It's absolutely beautiful. Food is incredible. The beaches were very beautiful.

I really enjoyed the marina life that you can have there. So you're just hopping from one marina to another? It is very well, well set up for that. Definitely would go back. We didn't, never ventured too far inland, like we visited all the tiny coastal towns.

I see why Italians are always so fit and healthy. 'cause you have to walk up hills every single day.

Luca : It depends where you are on in Italy, Tursi fits that bill.

Riaan: C'est vrai.

I think I got 15,000 steps on a slow day in Tursi.

Anna : And how did you end up in Tursi for the co living week?

Riaan: I had three months to plan in Europe And I saw this Facebook post this post about Tursi, and I was like, ah, co-living. I'm not so sure if I'm really keen for this.

And I just remember seeing [00:11:00] Salva and Maria and I was like, this whole idea that they're selling. It's really cute. They've got this little village, very authentic living, and that's what hooked me. It was that like authentic small village experience in Italy.

And I was like, okay, let's try this. Do not give me a recommendation to go to Paris and see the Eiffel Tower. I wanna see things in Paris that are off the beaten track. Like I've seen so many monuments. You've seen so many museums. At some point it becomes all the same. So you wanna see something different. And that's what was, for me, it was different. It was authentic. And yeah, when I, after speaking to them, I was like, wow, let's do this.

Luca : One of the big selling points is the fact that they try to build a little bit of a link between the nomads who are sometimes a bit aloof and, uh, and the locals. Did you, do you have that experience? Did you feel that?

Riaan: Absolutely. I think the fact that they made effort to take us to all these, to all the local [00:12:00] restaurants, to speak to a lot of people, to have workshops where they would include some of the local kids

Luca : Do you normally choose to go to structured s or structured experiences or do you like to go solo as well?

Riaan: It depends on my mindset. Um, I'd say both. So right now I'm in a co-living space, which has got 27 rooms. You've got a co-working space inside the co-living laundry sorted for you. There's a gym, they constantly have little events happening. I love that when I want to focus and work.

When I'm on holiday, so not really holiday, but just not working that hard, I way prefer to do my own thing, to go off the path, to go, I will rent a motorbike, put my laptop on the back and just go, and every day is a new experience.

Like for me, that's the real experience where you just really go with the flow and every day is a new experience.

Luca : So when you were in Southern Italy, were you in holiday mode or semi [00:13:00] holiday mode, or 12 hours a day?

Riaan: I was very much in holiday mode. I could really immerse myself in the, in the nomad scene, like in the Village. Doing ketogenic diets, so no carbs.

Eggs and steak. Luckily Southern Italy has good meat. I would wake up, go for my first training station of the day, have a good breakfast, head up to the coworking station where I'm sure you guys know it was up in the cathedral, which is really beautiful. Spent some time working. Stay up there for like a sunset and I love to fly my fly drones. So got some really beautiful videos of Tursi, especially like when the sun is setting, you've got that golden hour. I would then go for a second training session and join the evening activities. So whatever was happening on the evening, um, be it the pasta workshops or pizza making workshops, I'll join those.

Luca : You mentioned keto, sometimes keto is jokingly referred to as the princess diet because of the cost of getting all the, the protein. How did you find the cost of [00:14:00] living compared to your expectation?

Riaan: Honestly much lower than I expected. Yeah, no, I mean the butchers were incredibly good. Um, it was very, very affordable, I would say, especially compared to the rest of Europe. In Paris, or let's say Berlin or you know, wherever you're gonna be traveling, um, things are gonna be expensive 'cause you're in the tourist hub, but Tursi is not a tourist hub. People are there to live a day-to-day life, but I found it quite affordable.

Luca : Did you find yourself welcomed by the local community?

Riaan: Oh, absolutely. So many convers, broken English, broken Italian conversations. We, we can barely communicate, but they are just so welcoming and so you can do a lot with your hands.

Right. Exactly. Luckily you don't need to speak. I remember just walking up the mountain there once and, uh, there was this old man with this very, very cute dog and he would just try and invite us into his house for drinks and offer us [00:15:00] beer and, he was just so happy that someone else also wanted to play with his dog.

So small little interactions like that

Luca : You felt like people were genuinely appreciating the fact that, that you guys would bringing in something or at least liking where they live, I imagine.

Riaan: From my understanding. Um, they were very happy to have us there, and they showed it.

Anna : I think that that's the beauty of being a digital nomad, that you can choose between the, the flexibility of traveling around and working, but at the same time choosing to, settle and live, let's say, a different life for a while. You can say that you've lived in, in Italy, it's as if you were living different lives. That's beautiful.

Riaan: I read a post the other day, which kind of spoke about this, where a lot of people travel to a location and they just travel there for their own enjoyment.

Just to consume and take in what's there. And then they leave. But they never integrate. They never immerse themselves into the local population. [00:16:00] They never speak to the people. And that, that for me is the way I prefer to travel, is to try and actually speak to the people and, you know, see what it's about.

Like you can say you've been to Italy, but have you, you ever eaten in an Italian's home?

That's the beauty of this project, like, I must say, the, the place where I'm staying in now, it's, it's very nice, but I

Anna : mean.

Riaan: Nobody's, everybody here speaks perfect English. Um, we're not really doing much effort to be integrated into the Thai community or, you know, speak to the Thai people.

Luca : Are you planning to go back to Italy at some point.

Riaan: Absolutely. Even if it's just to see Salva and Maria. I made a few friends, maybe two, three friends that I still keep contact with, but top of that list of those two.

Luca : It's a great endorsement.

Riaan: I, I grew up in Cape Town, which is considered a big city in South Africa, but not, not that big by international standards. But I've always been a small town guy. I like connecting with people. I [00:17:00] prefer to. Take life a little bit slower. Um, and big cities, there's just not much for me in a big city.

So, yeah, for me, definitely prefer smaller towns or like close to nature is really more the requirement. And the people you meet in small towns are also all different, complete, completely different to, to people you meet in cities.

Anna : Yeah. They are surprised by your presence and more likely to engage.

Riaan: And they're always super friendly.

The interactions you get in these villages, like you just go to buy a sandwich and the guy invites you to his wedding, you know?

Anna : And what are for you, the pros and cons of living a digital nomad life.

Riaan: Oh, big question. I mean, the pros are, you know, the, the lifestyle is amazing. Um, you can go anywhere. You can do anything. That amount of agency you have of your, over your life.

So if you have high agency, you have a lot of choices in life. [00:18:00] So what I mean like is you are able to choose the country you wanna live in. If I don't like this place, I'll just go. So having like high agency, being able to just make a choice and act on it, that is really, very cool for me. The cons are interesting. You get very lonely. I would say if you don't really put effort into friendships and co-living help a lot. Like especially this Tursi project, you know, it helped a lot because you were with the same friends for five, six weeks, that makes a big difference.

Anna : You are working, but at the same time, you are living because you're seeing lots of places that many people are waiting to see just once or twice.

Riaan: South Africa means we have to do the Schengen visa. Which is really annoying. And it's only like three months per six months. So you can stay in Europe for half a year, but you have to leave the whole time. So you can come in and then you have to leave.

That's why this digital nomad visa is super [00:19:00] interesting because now you can, you actually have the opportunity to stay in a European country. And initially it wasn't. It wasn't all the cool countries. Like I would love to stay in Italy. And then, I mean, another thing is that. For me, it's, it's really nice because it gives you some form of a residency. It helps you with taxes, basically.

So it helps you to prove to your home country that, hey, I'm actually in this country, you know, I'm actually paying tax. Where's your financial residency? So these digital nomad visas are really, really useful for that as well.

Anna : Yeah, because how, how does it work? Like in Thailand for example, if you're staying for three months, how does it work for the taxes?

Riaan: If you stay three months, it's not a problem. But if you stay longer it can become a problem.

Anna : Yeah, absolutely. It's, it's quicker, compared to other routes, just to find a job in the country that it's absolutely difficult and all these things, it's. It's beautiful that the [00:20:00] government like decided to do this thing.

Riaan: It shows that they're actually like progressive and thinking forward to say, Hey, there's, there's this big demand. Are we gonna stay a bureaucracy and not adapt? Or are we actually gonna adapt and move towards these? Because initially it was just like some of the lower income countries that offered this as like, mm-hmm we want to get people in. This is another way to get people in. But now everybody's seeing the opportunity and, okay, well we can actually like, have more nomads, have more people.

I'm very much strongly considering, um, uh, going to Italy on this visa.

Anna : If you need support, we are here. Thank you so much. thank you for, for sharing your story and your thoughts.

Riaan: Anna, thanks. Thanks so much. I really appreciate the time as well.

Luca : So Anna, that was interesting.

Anna : It definitely was.

Luca : And to find, such an amazing experience, in a tiny little town is something you, you might not expect. So I hope that some of our listeners will consider looking up the, Tursi digital nomad [00:21:00] village and, perhaps they can be there for the next, uh, popup event, which I believe is going to be in the spring of 2026.

Anna : A great time to breathe some authentic Italian energy.

Luca : Talking about authentic Italian energy, I think it's time for us to go and, uh, enjoy our last weekend before Christmas. I assume we both have a lot of cooking to do, right, Anna?

Anna : That's what I was thinking about.

Luca : What's gonna be on your Christmas lunch table

Anna : I'll definitely do the antipasti guys.

Luca : Do we know what they're gonna be or are you gonna keep us on ten You're still thinking about it.

Anna : Yeah. Yeah. Something with gorgonzola, by the way.

D'accord.

Luca : Okay. I see that there's a trip to the supermarket coming up for you.

Anna : Oui, c'est vrai.

Luca : As for myself, I shall see what my mom is going to cook for me. You know it Christmas, I gonna let her do all the cooking. In which case, I am going to wish you the best of Christmases. And, uh, we are going to be back with our podcast in the first week [00:22:00] of 2026.

Anna : Happy holidays guys.

Luca : Thank you everyone. Take care. Thank you